Today's guest is legendary evolutionary biologist and outspoken atheist
, whom I interviewed last fall in Milwaukee as part of his "Final Bow" tour. As is likely the case with many of his readers, I first encountered him through The Selfish Gene (1976), which revolutionized the way we understood evolution by thoroughly displacing the idea that humanity (or even whole organisms) were the “point” of evolution. I read that book first in the early 1980s as an undergrad psych major and then toward the end of that decade as a grad student in literature (a field which held Dawkins and similar figures such as E.O. Wilson, author of Sociobiology, in contempt). The Selfish Gene, which gave rise to the term ‘meme’ and which I reread in prep for interviewing him, remains an incredible achievement.We talked about why he believes science can't thrive without freedom, why gender ideology is starting to look a lot like Soviet Lysenkoism, and why some truths—like the binary nature of biological sex—shouldn't be up for political negotiation.
We discuss his latest book, The Genetic Book of the Dead, what it means to live in a "colony of cooperating viruses," and why he thinks both religious dogma and postmodern relativism are enemies of progress (as an unapologetic postmodern libertarian, I argue that point and several others throughout).
We also explore how moral progress happens, whether atheism needs a replacement as a social and intellectual movement, and how cultural Christianity still casts a long shadow in an increasingly secular world.
This is a conversation that will interest anyone who believes that science, skepticism, and freedom belong together—and who refuses to kowtow to ideological orthodoxy, wherever it comes from. Dawkins may not always be right, but his greatest achievement may be defending the system that helps all of us move in the direction of truth.
Watch/listen above or scroll down below.
Upcoming Reason events:
Rise Above: Nick Gillespie and Scott Barry Kaufman in Conversation, May 19
Reason Speakeasy: Susannah Cahalan on The Acid Queen, June 3
Reason Versus debate: Jacob Sullum and Billy Binion vs. Charles Fain Lehman and Rafael Mangual, June 24
0:00—Introduction
2:06—Dawkins' new book, The Genetic Book of the Dead
6:13—Selfish and cooperative genes
16:50—Heritability, variance, and twin studies
20:50—Cultural change leads to physical change
22:37—Ancient Babylon was just yesterday
24:28—Dawkins' first memory
25:13—New Zealand's "indigenous science" initiative
34:43—"Sex is the only biological binary"
37:46—Gender, transgenderism, and intersex
47:31—The folly of gender "norms"
49:42—Liberal inquiry and the shifting moral zeitgeist
53:15—Atheism's influence on knowledge and culture
57:27—Is Dawkins really a "cultural Christian"?
1:02:00—Death and legacy
1:03:50—Q&A
Video Editor: Cody Huff
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